[21:51:56] I have a small problem. I want to contribute and participate in whatever individuals are allowed to do at the W3C but I am not currently allowed on Github. [21:54:28] Information [21:54:28] To facilitate group operations and technical collaboration, please link your GitHub account. [21:57:37] So I am kinda confused cause it seems like Microsoft gets to decide who gets to participate while Google writes the standards and Mozilla or Apple merely agrees with them. I have a lot of interest in the web that wasn't and the web that soon won't be. XML technologies and stable standards that are extensible. [22:08:44] XBL is of particular interest to me as a long time mozilla tech user .. I always wanted XBL 2.0 to be supported but it wasn't. However, Mozilla's deep involvement in influencing customelements and shadowroot make describing a custom element AS XBL with only minor variations very doable. They wanted to ease their transition obviously.. I was [22:08:44] considering doing a JS lib to do the work.. Just would be nice if browsers simply understood an XBL like syntax and constructed the element as intended.. wouldn't exclude programmatic construction with JS alone.. [22:11:15] In general i feel the web has become less accessible to the individual webmaster or small groups wanting to do something without merely opting for a social media page or one click webapp generator. [22:13:49] In general how many full stack developers or users of that stack actually writing HTML, CSS, and vanilla JS by hand or simply not at scale.. Also browser developers .. divergent and fully independent forks are at a supreme disadvantage. [22:15:46] and it is upsetting overall to want to try and help even on things that I don't particularly want when i find out that Microsoft is the decider of that actually. [22:18:18] Funny thing is.. the W3C didn't need github when it was actually writing the web standards.. so why does it require github now when .. that isn't even happening. [13:48:32] So has anyone given any thought to the fact that the Microsoft Corporation is gatekeeping both W3C and WhatWG from contributors that aren't on good terms with the Microsoft Corperation? [13:50:28] and despite what Google and Mozilla did from 2008 on that the same Microsoft Corporation is what eroded trust and relevance of the W3C in the first place that spawned the incorrect decision to endrun you and create WhatWG and strongarm the real independant standards body for the world wide web into corporate mandates safegaured by Microsoft, [13:50:28] written by google, enforced by Mozilla and apple sometimes cares? [13:53:07] I feel it is a very important issue. I personally would like to see a structured XML based web maybe not to the mandated modular extremes that late 2000s XML was heading but rational stable XML based standards which can co-exist just fine on the web or even a separate protocol along with what WhatWG and etc want. [13:55:57] It is disappointing that xhtml 1.0 was superseeded by the HTML5 standard when HTML5 is not in any way a replacement for XHTML 1.0 [14:01:13] the fact is I am TECHNICALLY or WAS and could be in a hot second not only a browser vendor but browser implementor. I am Matt A. Tobin of Binary Outcast I don't have money, I don't have a legal entity, I don't even have social skills.. and YET last decade I coordinated a group of assholes under another asshole to try and stay true to older mozilla [14:01:13] principles and w3c standards even in the face of randomly changing daily standards of the WhatWG. I failed hard to keep this group from devolving into a mass of terrible people and them dragging me with them just so i could try and preserve and evolve the web along lines closer to what the W3C wanted. But the technology and processes remain solid [14:01:13] which is the only reason THEY are still operating. Riding off my hard work and the efforts paid for with chunks of my soul. [14:06:09] But because I am, as irrelevant as I may be, am on the outs with the Microsoft Corperation.. it means I cannot do anything with or for the W3C and that just is something that is far larger of an issue than shooing me away eventually [14:06:32] I would think. [14:07:52] Maybe someone can actually say something or just ban me already.. Cause ignoring me without any other action will not end well for anyone. Especially me. [14:10:54] bigbluehat cptaffe csarven dlehn drott englishm hdv jh jjs keithamus Linux_Kerio mike Raito_Bezarius reillyg ryan-c sammacbeth sihloo_ Teukka tobie_ trwnh zichy [14:17:19] Welp.. I guess I will have to just write my own technical specifications based on older Mozilla implementations and basically fork the web. Least forking the protocol i can ACTUALLY REFERENCE IETF's rfcs but the W3C noooooo and since I can't contribute and am not a million dollar company I guess that is my only option until ISPs restrict ALL [14:17:19] traffic to Google's Web Protocol like how they block port 25 and have sandvine packet shaping technology. [14:18:43] essentually non-googleweb protocols will be either degraded or outright blocked by ISPs.. Congrats the W3C has allowed the world wide web to become just media streams for ABC, CBS, and NBC or more properly their contemporary web counterparts. [14:19:46] The W3C was NOT created to turn the Internet into Broadcast Television i believe but who knows maybe I am wrong. [14:20:03] Am i? I legit wanna know. [14:24:42] As someone who grew up in the 90s had the internet in 94 Mosiac Netscape 0.9 on Windows 3.1 with Trumpet WinSock.. if anyone had told me THIS is where we'd end up.. I'd have went outside and found some friends. [14:26:14] I have a website in 1996 I was 11. [14:27:11] what can an 11 year old do in about 5 years.. besides get a social media profile.. [14:31:28] But nevermind that.. as long as the money keeps coming in and WhatWG still allows you to exist and Microsoft provides your social coding infrastructure.. what difference does anything make to me or the 11 year old I once was with the earlyest web [14:31:57] except i am not convinced. [14:40:31] hell maybe none of you are even in the w3c structure.. didn't consider that.. most elites like to hide them selves away and prevent conflict and questions and random autistis from coming by with 15 years of depressing diatribe on how the W3C failed us all and just don't have any reason anymore not to just go to the places causing issues and telling [14:40:31] them .. JUST so they know.. me getting banned is immaterial, I accepted that when I decided to hold different opinions from the prevailing one when it makes sense to do so. [14:42:35] the failed assumption on the W3C's part was two fold.. one that Mozilla at the time didn't matter enough.. and Two eventual deciding that being endran by companies to get them to cooperate on standards is better than the former process when really before google became embolden.. Microsoft was really the only one who wouldn't obey standards or not [14:42:35] obey not-their standards [14:43:43] My failed assumptions all basically resolve to assuming anyone actually cares.. .. its like hardwired or something.. [16:45:19] nsITobin: you might try presenting your concerns to an appropriate mailing list. for better or worse, github is how a lot of w3 collaboration happens these days. and i think it's been wildly successful. you should work with github to figure out your access issues. [20:47:50] So you're telling me that the W3C couldn't run a gitlab instance or afford a basically turnkey hosted version? Wouldn't broad access not mandated by a company with a conflict of interest in specifications today and their entire history be a better solution? [20:48:25] I can't get my account back and getting another would violate the terms of service. [20:53:20] Not to mention I was banned ONLY because an influential member in the redhat ecosystem didn't like that I was commenting on an anti-wayland gist looking to organize a group to step in and take over when wayland sacrifices x11 for its encapsulated emulation. THAT is why I no longer have a valid github account. Apparently that was classed as inciting [20:53:20] a group to violence. [20:56:49] forking a project a cabal of corporations wants gone.. that's violence now according to them. Enough to require wiping out a decade of contribution and development history and crippling part of my extended infrastructure. So no I am not gonna beg Microsoft for my account back just so I can be excluded by the W3C on an org level